Seshin lost two really rare items two weeks too. I informed a DM who explained me sleight of hand would be disabled. My char was never in the Silver Dagger though. She has zero spot skills and wouldnt notice a pickpocket attempt. If mentioned thief had a spellsequencing staff (greater restoration was saved in the weapon) and an adamantite armor let me know

Eh, that really borders on asshattery and clearly is abusing the engine and server rules. And what's worse, some people will now avoid the Silver Dagger, and RP with the crew, alltogether, to be sure they are not losing stuff, just because of one person, which is a shame for the players who did nothing. But perhaps the person responsible has enough of a backbone to step up and admit it was him/her so people know whom to avoid if they want to be on the safe side.

As far as I know, Sleight of Hand isn't disabled, it's simply really, really nerfed. There's a script that grants you -15 or so to your sleight of hand rolls, so it's a skill that's really difficult to get very high.

However, making an entire inventory disappear is still abuse of an ingame skill so I can only hope he gets caught. =/

IHMO it doesn't border on, it IS asshattery and if it is reported IC to ANY of the Dagger staff we will ban the person from the inn because as Dragonpen states, we don't want people avoiding the inn over this.

I can't even begin to comprehend how anyone even considered this to be even slightly in the spirit of the server.

yes dragonpen is correct along with you can't do it neutrally ma and a friend found out. you can only do it if both parties are hostile which sometimes happens if one get's goes hostile. so that's my knowledge on this subject.

I'd like to make it clear, there is NO SUSPICION that any one associated with the Silverdagger was involved. The people there are always fun and pleasant and it wouldn't be like any of them to do this.

Its NOT about the dagger, it is about some one figuring out how to use this skill and who's stealing things from players. You need to be on guard EVERYWHERE.

Not being in the dagger isn't going to protect your stuff, this character is as portable as the rest of us, and as capable of pulling this trick there as anywhere.

So, please do not take this as a warning not to frequent the Dagger, just take it as a warning to keep your things in the bank until the issue is resolved.

((Won't stop Kara from fuelling her upscale wino tendencies at the Dagger. If I notice anything suspicious get a screencap of the combat log and people in the area so we can all have lots of nice juicy evidence to bitchslap this utterly reprehensible twat from messing up anyone else's fun.))

((Uther starts chanting "MAN HUNT MAN HUNT MAN HUNT MAN HUNT"))

just some technical stuff

the slight of hand option is not cancelled (that is impossible afaik) but nerfed to the point of non useability.
that means that any attempt at slight of hand has a huge penalty that makes it fail.
of course, if someone has a very high soh skill and operating on a low level (and trying several times while hidden) it might be possible to succeed.

BUT don't do it without ooc consent. it pisses everybody off.

Pickpocket is disabled. However, it stays on the bar of newly created characters and doesn't get taken off unless that person takes it off. It allows it to be used, still, so long as the player doesn't remove it. It is an exploit to use it.

Anyone found to be using it need to be reported to DMs, and, in my opinion, to the community as a whole. The player mentioned in the original post should be outed so that we all have an idea of who to look for and avoid to prevent this from happening again.

Now, I'm not sure if the combat log tells you if you've lost an item...but I believe it does. If you notice your log saing "Lost XXX item", it's a good sign someone is griefing you. Make sure to find out who it is and explain the situation. While it's certainly an exploit, newer players may not be familiar with the fact that they could be banned from the server for using it. Explain the situation, see if they'll give you the stuff back, and whether they do or not, let a DM know.

Now, on another note...I'm not sure whether or not a person has to actually be hostile to you, or just neutral, to abuse the bug. If they indeed need to be hostile, then I can confirm around Saturday, February 11th, there was a player (fairly new to server) that set dozens of people to hostile with their level 10-ish character. I imagine if it's the same player that's been abusing the Pickpocket exploit, that they'll be someone to question. I can't remember the exact name, but I believe it was something like "Mein".

Apologies if I'm outing an innocent person, but the behavior was suspicious and is worth looking into given the nature of the current situation.

this too

I know that person. but they were no near me. so I did not worry about it.as for pick pocketing, I was sure it did not work here, on my first pc I was going to have it and saw it was not allowed. so never did after that even put points in the skill.

ignore this one its a duplicate post.

To Rayne and others - While I realize that everyone would appreciate my outing the person who committed the crime - I feel that until the DM's have an opportunity to deal with it I should remain silent on who it was.

However, that said, as I posted - the person did return the items to my friend,however the fish he'd caught was marked *stolen goods* when he tried then to sell it and so lost his day's labor fishing as a result of this.

He logged in for a bit this afternoon but was so angry, he logged back off and I am afraid he won't be back on Haven any time soon.

If it isn't breaking server rules for me to say who did this I will, but I just don't want to get myself banned too for creating a lynch mob.

• edited for clarity*

(( you can usually pickpocket people without being hostile. And while I agree in alerting people to the presence of a troublemaker actually naming names OOC in a gross violation such as this leaves an unpleasant taste in my mouth. Newbie foolishness doesn't equate malicious intent unless proven otherwise. Let those who actually got stolen from inform the authorities of who they believe it was and let them deal with it. Fuck knows enough people have a hard enough time differentiating between OOC and IC drama so let's not add any more fuel to that particular shitstorm by throwing names about.))

I can understand why some people don't want to name names. I'd certainly hope people playing on an adult server were also mature enough to understand a "noob mistake" and not shun someone for doing something they didn't know was against the rules. However, if the same person continues to be an asshat after being made aware of the rules, what recourse do we have, other than to make everyone aware to avoid them?

I don't see anything good from keeping everything quiet, when people playing should have a right to know when there is potential for them to be "harmed". It's like the 6 o' clock news...broadcasting that there's a serial rapist/murderer on the loose who's already struck four victims in your neighborhood, but saying that if you want to know their whereabouts and description you have to stay tuned until 10 o' clock.

| I'm not sure if fingers were/are being pointed toward my character 'Mein' who happened to be left stealthed in the Silver Dagger around when this seems to have happened. I was unfortunately pulled away due to an emergency and Mein was afk for about 6 hours. I have no screen shots to prove it wasn't her and I've re-rolled her since, so I can't prove I didn't have pick pocket, but it wasn't Mein.

I disapprove of anything RP or mechanical that ruins someones fun.

And for anyone wondering why mein suddenly put EVERYONE on hostile last week, it was because I was told there was a bug with stealth and I was testing ways to fix it. Thank you to everyone who didn't kill me for the trial and error mistake!!

Certainly understandable. It had me concerned for a time, because I don't know you...yet! However, I appreciate the explanation, as the initial action was a tad suspicious, but the explanation is all that's needed to clear up that bit.

I am still concerned about others, though. Hopefully, this will be a one-time event and players will be more understanding and explain the problem to others in the future if it happens again.

Future asshattery from people that have been made aware of the exploit, though, I imagine will be dealt with in a manner that DMs/Bar find necessary to get the point through. Asshattery is bannable, and even though Bar and the DM staff may not always be around due to having lives like MOST of the rest of us (), it will undoubtedly be dealt with.

Certainly hoping that people can just go back to having fun, without paranoia about hiding pickpockets! On another note, roleplaying the pickpocketing is certainly a valid way to roleplay on the server! It's a crime, of course, but maybe someone will have fun with it? People are certainly welcome to pursue that RP route with me on any of my characters. Just don't expect to be getting phat epics out of it.

You mean OOC consent.

I though it was disabled. I was told it was disabled and I never tried it.

It is possible that the disabling is broken since the last update. I'll have to look into that.

It is against the server rules to pick pocket through game mechanics. It is allowed to roll the skill dice and RP to be stealing though.

Anyone I catch stealing through game mechanics gets banned!

Indeed, I misspoke. There was no rp around this at all, it was simply done, and I believe my friend contacted you and Bar days ago about it. He has screen shots, the characters name and account information.

Well...don't ban some poor unknowing individual...

I can understand that some people might not understand that it's actually not supposed to be possible anymore. I'd imagine a stern talking to and a swat on the butt would suffice for 99% of people. It's always those darn 1%ers...

It has long since been my understanding that Sleight of Hand is disabled. I have not heard of any such incidents until this.

Could be that whatever "fix" was implemented stopped functioning after some update, or they may have found a workaround.

At any rate, have made a note of this and we should be able to patch it fairly easily. Thanks for reporting.

i will say this, disabled or not, slight of hand is against the server rules period. It also clearly states ignorance of such offences is NO excuse. The guilty party sould be repremanded acordingly reguardless of their ignorance of the crime.

They are lucky i didnt catch them. No matter your logic, taking others items through whatever reason is wrong, unless both of you clicked offer and then accept in the trade window. Abusing a clunky game engine and calling it "rp" is wrong. Now if you made a public slight of hand roll and roleplayed it out and then they oocly handed you something, THATS roleplay. Sitting around while HIPS and spamming pickpocket on someone, is game engine abuse and metagaming. And if I caught anyone doing it, it would have been an insta-ban. Peroid.

Aanndd just because I think it needs to be said, any player can check the player list to see who is and is not an area. Even if they are hiding/invisable/etheral. The Player List tool shows everyone in an area, no matter what. So if your items are poofing, check that. Its nice enough to even show them their character and account names too. So handy.

If I had it my way HIPS and Pickpocket wouldnt even exist here. They are the most abused things in the game. But thats water under the bridge. So whoevers doing it had better stop, because its not allowed here, and it never was.

XOXO
Neiska

I was the one talking to him/her.

They were really a role-model about how to talk to a DM. Not lying or trying to hide anything. Actually being very cooperative and pleasant to talk with.

I wish more players would act like that when talking to a DM.

Pick pocketing a suit of armor? Really? How is that even possible, unless the owner is asleep, incapacitated or dead.

I could see a ring that is not worn, a necklace that is worn or not, gems , gold or other small items, but Staffs, armor, helmets, cloaks, etc... Talk about an exploit even if SOH wasn't diabled/nerfed.

Well, this is based on DnD, the game where, with enough rank of escape artist, an ogre can climb up the ass of a pixie. (not making this up)

or when a kobold can have enough strenght in his jump to jump off a reasonable cliff and stab the back of a giant and slide down him to safey (true story)

Me (who plays the hin Yasmina) and Vlad the Bloody were pickpocketed today when we attended the tournament in Mithuth arena arranged by the Aleant'tar house.

So was the late comer, the viking like guy.Maybe it was the stealthy tiefling?

how much did you lose little nightflower? or was it items?

Ugh, that's no good...

The tournament occurred between 9:00am PST and 10:30am-ish PST, as far as I know. The date being the same day as this post (March 25th). Hopefully that time window might help anyone that looks into this?

I really hope whoever is responsible might, at the very least, stumble over this thread...but I imagine it was probably someone newer to the server that just needs a talking to about the rules regarding it.

Hopefully you get your stuff back!

I lost 400 gold, armor and a enchanted dagger.. possibly other stuff as well but can't recall what (my inventory is cluttered).

Thanks Rayne.. I hope so too.

Pick pocket is disabled again!

I do have a avatar with a high slight of hand skill and it still appears to be useable albeit with a extreme skill penalty ((-15 or something brought it down to 30 or so.)). The only reason he has this is to combat the pvp disarm related ass-hattedness that was quite popular at the time. ((And he has that as-well))I have yet to actualy use this skill on another player nor did I intend to but I had believed it to be only very difficult and not forbidden?

Pick pocket is allows to be roleplayed, rolling a die and emoting the action of nimble fingers slowly diving into the pocket, searching for the treasure, slowly closing the fingers tenderly around the hard, round... gold coins before pulling them carefully out of the pocket.... you get the idea.

Using the nwn2 game function of pick pocketing is not allowed. It's RP only.

And they called me crazy for keeping mouse traps in my pouches... who's laughing now? Mwahahaha!

It's not the pouches where my hands would aim for with you ^_^

<_< Get a room, you two...

Good advice... *takes Rayne's room*

Thanks, hun.

Now, you know if you're going to be taking my room, you're just going to have to share it with me...

And I don't think that's a step you want to take, yet...

I'm always open to try new things first before deciding whether I like them or not...


But we're derailing the thread too much...

Greetings Haven Community. I will make this quick. How is vigilantism generally treated or accepted by others? OOC I mean. Would it be asshattery to go after a weaker character, (sometimes dickhead player.), who is making a fool of themselves? I.E. Acting aggressively towards a slave or some other poor soul?

From a Kortugan point of view regarding slaves....If they haven't paid for the slave and are treating it badly then report them to the Warden, sit back and wait for the whoop ass. If they have paid for the slave and are treating it badly then ah well, that's what they are for!

Players usually play slaves because they want to play them. So usually treating them like slaves is what they are looking for.

You can always check OOC and ask if they like something special, make it fun for both. Also check the ERP prefs. If they set "Public Humiliation" to white, then go all out

Keep in mind that if others see you, they will think you're a jerk IC (which you are, but that's fine since you chose to play that).

Now if you say "dickhead players", then you go after players, not characters. That's a no-go.

It's fine to rough up some "dickhead characters" though. IC actions = IC consequences. That applies for everyone.

Do keep in mind that it has to be all IC. Not OOC! If the other character doesn't want consequences OOC, tell them to stop causing them IC. In 90% of the cases communication goes a long way and it's possible to find an agreeable solution for everyone. ( OOC agreeable, not necessarily IC ).