((Going to miss you ))

• writing another note, this time addressed to the Lord Regent*
  

Greetings Lord Regent,

I would like to inquire about the purchase of Nawen and Ilz. I would like to do this using the proper channels and do everything lawfully and in the open. Please write to me at your earliest opportunity.

Sincerely,

Petra Hilden.

(I'll be around Sani. *hugs*)

To nobodies surprise, Jasmine is seen packing those few things she had and leaving with Petra*

(Edited as requested by one of the players involved in my OOC request, I just posted to expose my opinion on the matter, as it was not explict here, I will send a PM instead, thank you)

• writes a letter to the Counsil and Lord regent after reading the perposal*
  

To whom is may concern,
I have recently read over the request by Petra and sould i be alowed to have a say on the matter i have a few sujestions. Firstly a price of 500,000 gold for each slave she wishes to take with her, and sencondly a contract that states that if ever the slaves are to be given away, freed, or sold off for any reason, such as Petras untimely death, or prolonged absents from the Islands they must return to Enclave property. The final thing i would instill in the contract as well are 50% of all sales, and gathering the slaves do to be delivered to us as well for the first year.

Honoured Red Melgoth Tam, Post-Mortum Engineer

((Last time I checked average slave sold in Kotuga at MOST runs between 10,000 and 50,000 and personal chosen slaves selling for as little as 2 to 5000. It's a tad pricey to ask half a million. Either way, it won't matter if the slaves refuse to play in the Enclave OC))

((Kortugan slaves have ZERO baring on Enclave slaves. Useual Slave of the Enclave are NEVER sold, but rented out. The unclave will suffer serious losses when slaves depart, and to suplament the lossessould come into play. Besides that, i have seen Slave for a Day, thats right a single DAY owned slave sell for over 300k. Nawen has been in the enclave for considerable time and gives us much much proffets so loosing her would come at a great price. I'm not familure with Ilz, but i know he's level 30 and a level 30 slave on average can bring in around 20k a day minimum. I don't beleive 500k per slave is asking too much in the least. It is also noted as well these are recomendations, not what will actualy take place. It will be for the Lord Regent and the counsil to have the final say.))

(( You also need to take into account the wants of the players involved, OOCly. That is more important than any of your perceived "profits" gained or lost from the sale of a slave. If those players genuinely don't want to play in the Enclave anymore, and would rather be with the person listed, the general idea is that you just get over it and let them go do what they're going to have the most fun with. Asking 500k for a slave is also outrageous. The Slave for a Day auctions are not meant as a way to gauge the value of a slave, because the people being sold are usually NOT slaves, and never would be, so it's a special treat for someone to be able to "own" them for even a single day.

Look at it from the viewpoint of the players, and not from your viewpoint of "I'm losing money if we allow them to leave!" that you've seemed to take on. The players are actually people, and not slaves themselves. Treat them as such, or lose them...which seems to be what's happening. You lose people when you don't treat them kindly, and naturally if the player is attached to a character, it's unreasonable to ask them to leave it behind because they're unhappy with the situation you've put them in. Instead, you MUST accommodate what is going to make everyone involved happiest. The Enclave, in this case, is not one of the people involved...it is the players of those who wish to leave it. ))

((My case is what RayneDancer mentioned, I do not wish to play anymore with the Enclave for reasons that the players involved are aware of. Ilz is not a gold mine leaving, I have got to level 30 with help from other players, in a short time... I will return all the items given to me and everything, I just want to get Ilz separated from the Enclave without any stress or drama, and if possible, inside the reasonable terms in the RP...))

EDIT: grammar and some things added

To Rayne & Izl.

I agree. But I find that funny.
Funny...because one big mess at the beginning of this is that Petra wanted that the char Adinidia was deleted instead of being sold to Haaz. (so, she was opposed violently to the wish and the fun of the players involved because she thought it was against Thayan Lore).
So, stop turning around the table here.

I will remind to all : http://nwnhaven.com/forums/ooc-information-slave-and-how-behave-them

We are always willing to bend the rule IC to not spoil the fun OOC of player.

So no need to come here to explain to us what we should do. Thanks. Specially because in this case, it will be DM's call.


But, I also remind : you may just...start a new char not in the Enclave.

(Well, as we're all learning, Thayan Lore is what we make of it. Having learned the new way of things, who can be faulted for working with the new parameters? Rivark, I would ask that you stop trying to drag my name through the mud, politely. You live in a glass house. We're having a wonderful time together, and if anyone is interested in joining, please see Jasmine, Damiante, or myself. Woot!)

(I agree with Rivark and thank you for your last comment and input, Petra. I wonder why we even discuss it here. We have chatted with both slave player, of course. One player wants his character to be sold to Petra, another player doesnt want it oocly. Only because a Red wizard suggests icly to request 500k doesnt mean it will happen that way. My own rw character would try to speed thinks up but isnt involved or knows about any requests concerning Ilz since the letter is adressed to Akhalia)

((
I don't want to spoil the fun of anyone here. If you two players want to play together, by all means do it. But maybe choose the right character for it, or even start a new one.

If you play a slave of the enclave, that slave is owned by the enclave. The easiest way not to play in the enclave anymore is to delete that slave. Same with Sharessian Crown Servants. If you don't want to be a slave, delete them. Then start a new character in Kortuga that is properly owned by Kortugan laws. All ties to the Enclave cut.

If you really, really want to keep the character because you have a long history in Haven and are very affected with the character (not just the nice items that character may or may not have). Then we can discuss how things can be arranged to allow this. But IC lore must be preserved. I won't allow anyone to OOC collar switch or anything that can't be explained IC anymore! It happened before, it's not good and ruins the IC experience of everyone.

It is true that Enclave slaves usually don't get sold. I was always against privately owned enclave slaves even by the Khazarks but since many asked for that I accepted a few ownerships.

@Petra: Please send me a PM with a suggestion why Akhalia or the Enclave would agree to rent or sell a slave to someone who left. I need a justifiable IC reason to allow this.

The alternative: Nawen and Itz can create new character under Kortugan law. That way you can play either with Petra or in the enclave whenever you like without having to be transferred around all the time.
))

(( One thing I think is important to note is that times change. Sometimes, the way things have been run are just no longer viable to the current setting (slaves). This is the case with the Enclave, as I have seen time and time again since it was first created, until the first transition. That is why I left with my own character, and was allowed to do so based on the rather dramatic change to the faction that made it extremely undesirable to play in.

Asking people to re-roll characters is not a viable option, and I believe the only responsible solution is to work out the "sale" of the slaves to someone. Thay has an entire market of slave selling and buying that they partake in, in FR lore, as I recall. It doesn't make much sense to me that Thayan slaves would not be sold, then.

However, from how the server was once run, I do understand that slave sales were wanted to be kept more in line with from Kortuga or Sharessia only, to keep Thay from gaining an IC slave selling market. To that end, I recall that Enclave slaves were given an OOC option to perhaps be sold to Kortuga if the slave wanted it, so they could then be sold freely afterward (I believe this was to encourage people to play Enclave slaves, but given them a way out if they found it too undesirable versus traditional server slavery options). I think that would be an option best utilized in this case, rather than making people take established characters that they enjoy playing re-roll and never touch their old, beloved character again.

I know that it really isn't my decision to make, but I do feel that in the spirit of the server, where we do take into consideration the OOC wants and needs of the players (to a reasonable degree, but this falls into that category in my opinion). If players want to leave, what is the benefit to making them stay, when they are never going to play a character again because of it? That's how I would've been with Xin, but I am happy that she was given the opportunity to move on, and has since that time given me some great moments in my Haven history. ))

((Rayne, do you even HAVE an Enclave charicter? I mean seriously. As stated above this was IN CHARCICTER there for i'm trying to exsplain things why its was done this way. The ooc bits are being delt with by talking to the people and seeing what they want, and realy don't play any part here what so ever. Again these were Melgoths SUJESTIONS to the council and the Lord Regent, and they will deside at what price, if any the slaves will be sold to Petra. If your not apart of the Enclave i would sujest now that you leave this be, as you have no say what so ever and stupid rants like this are derailing from the RP. Half the fun of playing a screwd bussiness woman is negotiations! This letter from Melgoth in no way shape or form sould be taken on an ooc level and i ask you drop it now so we can return to the fun. The ooc side of this is that the players whom play the slaves will end up where they desire and all they have to do is be poatient and wait untill the negotiations are over, wich i don't feel is asking too much. So incase you don't understand this here it is in easy to ready text.

point 1, Your not apart of the Enclave and have no say.
point 2, This letter was IN CHARICTER!
point 3, OOC side of things are handled oocly, and the players involved have been spoken to to get their wishes taken under consideration and they will eventualy get what they want.
point 4, Your not doing anything with this rant other then causeing more drama, STOP IT
is that clear enough?))

(( Never mind. Foxy dear, I don't want to spoil your RP, or that of anyone else. My point was to remind people that the OOC feelings of the PLAYERS needs to be taken into account at all steps of RP. I was hoping that would have been more apparent in my posts. Alas...

Thank you for the recap of your post, though. I am all the more enlightened by it. ))

((the ooc feelings have been taken into acount but aren't mentioned in the post because it was IC))

(( Henceforth, I refer to all other OOC remarks below your IC post, which was mainly who I was talking to. ))

((Breathe Foxy Breathe. It's Just a game. She's trying to offer a solution that might work for everyone. You might not like her -suggestions- (Hint: No j in that word.) but that doesn't mean you should scream about it. This is a -public- forum. If you wanted to discuss it privately you should have put it in a private forum. Regardless. There's no need to pull your hair out over it, it's getting rather ridiculous. I also don't see how -She- is creating any more drama. She's trying to offer solutions that might work.

Now everyone relax, kay? ^^ We're supposed to be having fun.))

((thats just it, theres no solutions to be had. Its an Enclave matter, and will be handled by the Enclave. The fact it was posted publicly to begin with was an oversight by Petra to begin with))

(( @Rayne: So basically you agree with what I posted.

I want to add that Thayans would never sell slaves to Kortuga. It's widely known that Kortugan slaves can be freed and paying such manumission fee to free a slave isn't even illegal.

Selling to Sharessia would be fine though. I know that Telron rarely frees slaves. Those slaves would be sold with an additional condition that they must not be freed then.
))

((so basically you're admitting that you're being a hard case and aren't willing to compromise, Foxy. That's part of why this is a social server dear. It's Not a hard rp server. Being a social server means sometimes compromises have to be made OOC for the sake of the players, rather than IC. Otherwise I'm sure things would be far different than they are. That's what Rayne's trying to do, offer a form of compromise. She shouldn't be shunned for it. It should be considered and decided by the powers that be. Getting bent out of shape over it's just a bit on the silly side.))

(( I think we're agreeing on most points. I mean, honestly, I have no stake in any of it. I just like seeing people happy, and as long as something is worked out OOCly to allow for the IC changes, I think that's a wonderful thing! My initial points were mostly along the lines of a plea for a sane ending, when insane suggestions were being thrown around.

About all I have to say in regards to this topic now, unless addressed again. ))

((Petra has the citizen of Sharessia now, so no worries, then!))

((the fact of the matter was it wasn't even an issue and it was trying to be made out like we hadn't talked to these people on an ooc level to get their wants/needs met. We are not idiots, we know the rules, and respect other players and thats why she got the tongue lashing. Its not even about compramise, its about RP versus ooc. I was setting up some RP and someone desides lets make an ooc issue out of it.

As stated above TYPICALY Thayans in the Kortugan Enclave would NEVER sell a slave. So the fact we're willing to sell at all sould lead you to beleive something oocly had transpired. By makeing asumetions not only have you completely lost sight of these facts your makeing this into an unneed arguement and causeing more drama. There is NO ISSUE, to comprimise on. So once again i tell you STOP IT.))

((la sigh, and just as i thought, this sting of ooc has saverily interfeared with the negotiations and killed the RP. Thanks people))

(( You're welcome. ))

((And this is a good place to ask everyone to stop.

I know it almost never does when a person asks that...but I ask you to.

...As a "left the Enclave" present.

The people who wanted to, came...and those who wanted to stay, have.

It's a social server, it's about the people behind the characters that matters...the characters are just a symptom of the person behind them.

Let's just move on and enjoy the game!!!

Thanks! ))