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Sun, 2011-11-27 15:36
After reading several PMs and threads in this forum I feel the need to point out a common misunderstanding.
http://nwnhaven.com/wiki/haven-server
It's NOT a social server, but when you compare it to a Hard-core RP server it might look like a social server.
Being a RP server means that things happen IC, not OOC. That's why we have rules that forbid player self-gifting. If the only reasons why two characters exchange gifts are OOC reasons, like having the same player, then it's illegal.
However we are here to have fun and try to get along OOC. Therefore we have some social rules:
http://nwnhaven.com/wiki/social
Haven's rule of "no forced rp" applies both ways.
That means that I won't force any RP on other players but at the same time I will not allow any RP to be forced on me either.
And to make it even more complicated, that "no forced rp" has limits too. Exploiting it to avoid IC consequences for IC actions is considered ass-hattery and a reason to be banned.
Examples: Player A commits a minor crime in Sharessia and a guard stops them.
A) Player A talks back to the guard, provokes the guard and then tries to OOC stop going to jail => Wrong!
B) Player A apologizes to the guard and asks the guard OOC if they could leave it at a warning or maybe some other RP => Right!
http://nwnhaven.com/wiki/haven-server
Quote:
Haven is primarily a NWN2 Roleplaying server with heavy Social overtones.
It's NOT a social server, but when you compare it to a Hard-core RP server it might look like a social server.
Being a RP server means that things happen IC, not OOC. That's why we have rules that forbid player self-gifting. If the only reasons why two characters exchange gifts are OOC reasons, like having the same player, then it's illegal.
However we are here to have fun and try to get along OOC. Therefore we have some social rules:
http://nwnhaven.com/wiki/social
Haven's rule of "no forced rp" applies both ways.
That means that I won't force any RP on other players but at the same time I will not allow any RP to be forced on me either.
And to make it even more complicated, that "no forced rp" has limits too. Exploiting it to avoid IC consequences for IC actions is considered ass-hattery and a reason to be banned.
Examples: Player A commits a minor crime in Sharessia and a guard stops them.
A) Player A talks back to the guard, provokes the guard and then tries to OOC stop going to jail => Wrong!
B) Player A apologizes to the guard and asks the guard OOC if they could leave it at a warning or maybe some other RP => Right!
Tue, 2011-11-29 08:04
#1
I feel like I can use this thread to ask a question to the RP Server topic, without derailing it.
Seeing as Haven is, "primarily" RP server, have the Dm's thought about doing plots involving all the PC's on Haven?
I'm not talking about the occasional Monster Ralley or reversed-dungeon events.
I'm talking like multiple stage, events that you usually see on some RP-PW's.
Seeing as Haven is, "primarily" RP server, have the Dm's thought about doing plots involving all the PC's on Haven?
I'm not talking about the occasional Monster Ralley or reversed-dungeon events.
I'm talking like multiple stage, events that you usually see on some RP-PW's.
Tue, 2011-11-29 08:26
#2
There have been some events like that based around Satoris.
They generally only happen in Kortuga though as I know Goat said that attacks on Sharessia have to be cleared through Bar where as they don't in Kortuga.
We had one event that spread over the Valley and Kortuga with the Legion, Temple, Watch and Enclave all turning out to drive back Satoris forces with a Doom Guide of Kelemvor, Lindy and Marie destroying his physical form and making him remake it.
The Doom guide turned Lindy into a wrathful giant and Marie into a dragon for the attack. Ward wrote a song about it.
That was all thanks to DM seraphim. Goat also runs little plots and things as and when time allows.
Thing is, DM's get burnt out, get bored of being jumped on the minute they log in for things, get busy IRL and thus stuff like that doesn't get run any more.
They generally only happen in Kortuga though as I know Goat said that attacks on Sharessia have to be cleared through Bar where as they don't in Kortuga.
We had one event that spread over the Valley and Kortuga with the Legion, Temple, Watch and Enclave all turning out to drive back Satoris forces with a Doom Guide of Kelemvor, Lindy and Marie destroying his physical form and making him remake it.
The Doom guide turned Lindy into a wrathful giant and Marie into a dragon for the attack. Ward wrote a song about it.
That was all thanks to DM seraphim. Goat also runs little plots and things as and when time allows.
Thing is, DM's get burnt out, get bored of being jumped on the minute they log in for things, get busy IRL and thus stuff like that doesn't get run any more.
Tue, 2011-11-29 19:18
#3
Have to agree with Nathaniel. Roleplaying servers have live Dms who always stay in-character and never interact with PCs UNLESS they are playing NPCS.
Roleplaying servers have on-going plots supervised by Dm who as Dungeon Masters run like PnP games.
Roleplaying servers enforce roleplaying rules like speaking only IC and use party chat for IC party reports to the Dungeon Master.
Roleplaying servers have more than ten areas. Instead think 100-300 areas that represent recreate canon fantasy environments like Faerun, Lord of the Rings, and recently Game of Thrones content.
And nearly ALL roleplaying servers like Dalelands and BG: the Sword Coast will BAN you for participating in ERP and/or swearing nonetheless adult themes.
It's simply impossible to Roleplay here according to the standards of Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons. And if you read the "rules" the HDM here has made up, it says NOTHING about this being an RP server (which is listed in the SOCIAL server category by the HDM.) Instead his rules are "its my party, I hope you enjoy sharing my party with you.)
From there guide your information what sort of things the HDM wants and has done for his server. It's pretty much entirely sensual and fulfilling sexual gratification. In fact having experienced most of the DMs sexually I really have only seen Goat attempt at TRUE classical RP in the manner that real Rp servers do so while behaving anonymously and just as an NPC, never once breaking character to throw a tantrum or complain.
Haven is what is is. People come here to erotic roleplay from roleplaying servers to escape from being banned for that behavior on real roleplaying servers.
RP here is what happens between the ERP, otherwise you are just putting on a show and very few people are paying attention.
Roleplaying servers have on-going plots supervised by Dm who as Dungeon Masters run like PnP games.
Roleplaying servers enforce roleplaying rules like speaking only IC and use party chat for IC party reports to the Dungeon Master.
Roleplaying servers have more than ten areas. Instead think 100-300 areas that represent recreate canon fantasy environments like Faerun, Lord of the Rings, and recently Game of Thrones content.
And nearly ALL roleplaying servers like Dalelands and BG: the Sword Coast will BAN you for participating in ERP and/or swearing nonetheless adult themes.
It's simply impossible to Roleplay here according to the standards of Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons. And if you read the "rules" the HDM here has made up, it says NOTHING about this being an RP server (which is listed in the SOCIAL server category by the HDM.) Instead his rules are "its my party, I hope you enjoy sharing my party with you.)
From there guide your information what sort of things the HDM wants and has done for his server. It's pretty much entirely sensual and fulfilling sexual gratification. In fact having experienced most of the DMs sexually I really have only seen Goat attempt at TRUE classical RP in the manner that real Rp servers do so while behaving anonymously and just as an NPC, never once breaking character to throw a tantrum or complain.
Haven is what is is. People come here to erotic roleplay from roleplaying servers to escape from being banned for that behavior on real roleplaying servers.
RP here is what happens between the ERP, otherwise you are just putting on a show and very few people are paying attention.
Wed, 2011-11-30 04:42
#4
I agree with some points of the above.
Yes, the quality of roleplay here is not the best compared to "true" roleplay servers in the roleplay section, but it does happen nontheless.
Saying adult RP is no RP though is nonsense. Unfortunately, there is a fine balance here, and those who log into servers like Haven JUST for the kinky stuff ruin it for roleplayers like me who use adult RP including stuff like torture, extensive violence, and ERP to create more realism in their RP, opposed to servers where you have certain limits, which is perfectly fine for those servers.
The server unfortunately has not a lot of areas, and updates etc. are done very slowly. This, in accordance with slow, if any, plot progression, few true RP events, UBRs and IC requests taking a long long time to be responded to, makes this server unfortunately very slow and lacking when it comes to quality RP. And before anyone gets upset here, especially in the DM team, I am not pointing fingers at anyone, I am merely stating the truth.
I have made several OOC and IC requests/suggestions to improve the server, months, one of them I think even a year ago, and I haven't even recieved as much as a reply. Even a simple, "no", "not now", or "thanks for the suggestion, we will consider it" would be better than nothing at all. It discourages people further from trying to spice up the server, and add to the overall quality. Many plots, and with it the RP, die simply because we as players sometimes simply NEED the permission of the staff to do something, and if none is given, not even denied, simply nothing happening, these plots and the RP die.
I still do not think it is impossible to roleplay on Haven. I try to provide as much as is possible for me within the limits the server creates, a.k.a., limited areas, RP events run by DMs, DM permission to start something lacking. It is tough, but not impossible.
I hope this doesn't sound like a rant. Basically: Yes, Haven can be an RP server, but it wouldn't hurt to improve it either.
Yes, the quality of roleplay here is not the best compared to "true" roleplay servers in the roleplay section, but it does happen nontheless.
Saying adult RP is no RP though is nonsense. Unfortunately, there is a fine balance here, and those who log into servers like Haven JUST for the kinky stuff ruin it for roleplayers like me who use adult RP including stuff like torture, extensive violence, and ERP to create more realism in their RP, opposed to servers where you have certain limits, which is perfectly fine for those servers.
The server unfortunately has not a lot of areas, and updates etc. are done very slowly. This, in accordance with slow, if any, plot progression, few true RP events, UBRs and IC requests taking a long long time to be responded to, makes this server unfortunately very slow and lacking when it comes to quality RP. And before anyone gets upset here, especially in the DM team, I am not pointing fingers at anyone, I am merely stating the truth.
I have made several OOC and IC requests/suggestions to improve the server, months, one of them I think even a year ago, and I haven't even recieved as much as a reply. Even a simple, "no", "not now", or "thanks for the suggestion, we will consider it" would be better than nothing at all. It discourages people further from trying to spice up the server, and add to the overall quality. Many plots, and with it the RP, die simply because we as players sometimes simply NEED the permission of the staff to do something, and if none is given, not even denied, simply nothing happening, these plots and the RP die.
I still do not think it is impossible to roleplay on Haven. I try to provide as much as is possible for me within the limits the server creates, a.k.a., limited areas, RP events run by DMs, DM permission to start something lacking. It is tough, but not impossible.
I hope this doesn't sound like a rant. Basically: Yes, Haven can be an RP server, but it wouldn't hurt to improve it either.
Wed, 2011-11-30 07:04
#5
RoyalJelly wrote:
Because DMs on RP server never provide OOC support, it's always about the RP and nothing elseHave to agree with Nathaniel. Roleplaying servers have live Dms who always stay in-character and never interact with PCs UNLESS they are playing NPCS.
Quote:
Last I checked, we had that too with Satoris, DMs burn out put a stop to it but the attempt existed.Roleplaying servers have on-going plots supervised by Dm who as Dungeon Masters run like PnP games.
Quote:
Yes, because on a RP server you're not even allowed to say Brb or AFK.Roleplaying servers enforce roleplaying rules like speaking only IC and use party chat for IC party reports to the Dungeon Master.
Quote:
Listen Kids, you can't be a RP server unless you have a huge number of areas copied from a pre existing setting, you're not allowed to show any creativity in that departement.Roleplaying servers have more than ten areas. Instead think 100-300 areas that represent recreate canon fantasy environments like Faerun, Lord of the Rings, and recently Game of Thrones content.
Quote:
Wanting to keep a server PG 13 does not follow logicaly from being an RP server, try again.And nearly ALL roleplaying servers like Dalelands and BG: the Sword Coast will BAN you for participating in ERP and/or swearing nonetheless adult themes.
Quote:
Because every PnP game ever has excellent RP and no one act out of character ever or do some really stupid things that make no sense IC just because it sounds cool.It's simply impossible to Roleplay here according to the standards of Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons.
Quote:
Glad to hear we are not allowed to do things a bit differently if we want and it doesn't break the server rules.And if you read the "rules" the HDM here has made up, it says NOTHING about this being an RP server (which is listed in the SOCIAL server category by the HDM.) Instead his rules are "its my party, I hope you enjoy sharing my party with you.)
Quote:
Your limited experience of what DMs do is noted, but you should know by now that it's not because you haven't seen something that it doesn't exist.From there guide your information what sort of things the HDM wants and has done for his server. It's pretty much entirely sensual and fulfilling sexual gratification. In fact having experienced most of the DMs sexually I really have only seen Goat attempt at TRUE classical RP in the manner that real Rp servers do so while behaving anonymously and just as an NPC, never once breaking character to throw a tantrum or complain.
Quote:
Oh god, you're psychic, you can tell the reason why everyone ever has or ever will join this server.Haven is what is is. People come here to erotic roleplay from roleplaying servers to escape from being banned for that behavior on real roleplaying servers.
Quote:
That's your experience, not that of everyone else. RP here is what happens between the ERP, otherwise you are just putting on a show and very few people are paying attention.
Wed, 2011-11-30 07:36
#6
I enjoy great RP here.
And I never needed a DM to have RP. Including plot.
I never needed 50 areas either.
All that need to have great RP is to have player. There is some here.
And I never needed a DM to have RP. Including plot.
I never needed 50 areas either.
All that need to have great RP is to have player. There is some here.
Wed, 2011-11-30 08:19
#7
Saul Everkin wrote:
RoyalJelly wrote:Because DMs on RP server never provide OOC support, it's always about the RP and nothing elseHave to agree with Nathaniel. Roleplaying servers have live Dms who always stay in-character and never interact with PCs UNLESS they are playing NPCS.
Quote:Last I checked, we had that too with Satoris, DMs burn out put a stop to it but the attempt existed.Roleplaying servers have on-going plots supervised by Dm who as Dungeon Masters run like PnP games.
Quote:Yes, because on a RP server you're not even allowed to say Brb or AFK.Roleplaying servers enforce roleplaying rules like speaking only IC and use party chat for IC party reports to the Dungeon Master.
Quote:Listen Kids, you can't be a RP server unless you have a huge number of areas copied from a pre existing setting, you're not allowed to show any creativity in that departement.Roleplaying servers have more than ten areas. Instead think 100-300 areas that represent recreate canon fantasy environments like Faerun, Lord of the Rings, and recently Game of Thrones content.
Quote:Wanting to keep a server PG 13 does not follow logicaly from being an RP server, try again.And nearly ALL roleplaying servers like Dalelands and BG: the Sword Coast will BAN you for participating in ERP and/or swearing nonetheless adult themes.
Quote:Because every PnP game ever has excellent RP and no one act out of character ever or do some really stupid things that make no sense IC just because it sounds cool.It's simply impossible to Roleplay here according to the standards of Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons.
Quote:Glad to hear we are not allowed to do things a bit differently if we want and it doesn't break the server rules.And if you read the "rules" the HDM here has made up, it says NOTHING about this being an RP server (which is listed in the SOCIAL server category by the HDM.) Instead his rules are "its my party, I hope you enjoy sharing my party with you.)
Quote:Your limited experience of what DMs do is noted, but you should know by now that it's not because you haven't seen something that it doesn't exist.From there guide your information what sort of things the HDM wants and has done for his server. It's pretty much entirely sensual and fulfilling sexual gratification. In fact having experienced most of the DMs sexually I really have only seen Goat attempt at TRUE classical RP in the manner that real Rp servers do so while behaving anonymously and just as an NPC, never once breaking character to throw a tantrum or complain.
Quote:Oh god, you're psychic, you can tell the reason why everyone ever has or ever will join this server.Haven is what is is. People come here to erotic roleplay from roleplaying servers to escape from being banned for that behavior on real roleplaying servers.
Quote:That's your experience, not that of everyone else.RP here is what happens between the ERP, otherwise you are just putting on a show and very few people are paying attention.
Wow, Saul.
You managed to be all kinds of an asshole, in one post.
What made you feel that you just HAD to defend every single part of Royal's post, and furthermore, why do it in such an agressive tone?
I'd recommend you take a step back from your computer, take a deep breath and remove the e-thug cap for a second, then read his/her post once more.
Things are being discussed and suggested, so either be constructive or GTFO.
---
That said, so far I'm enjoying my time on Haven. I don't view it as an ERP server, I look at it as an RP server with ERP elements, but as was stated ealier by Dragonpen, there are those who just log in for the kinky stuff, then out again. Peace be with that, they are more than welcome, but some of us just wants.... more?
Wed, 2011-11-30 08:45
#8
Sorry Nate, I don't give any credit to tone argument. Acting nice doesn't make someone any more right or wrong. Serving cookies and smilling doesn't make an argument valid. But being brutaly direct as at least the benefit of not running around a point for hours in fear of hurting anyones feelings.
Royal Jelly post was extremely arrogant and shortsighted. It's essentialy a gigantic use of the no true scotsman fallacy.
And I was being constructive, but I guess I need to say it with less sarcasm. It doesn't matter what Bar chose to classify the server under, it doesn't matter what he and the DM do, it doesn't matter how many areas or events there are. What matters is what peoples chose to do whitout breaking the rules. And from what I've experienced there is as much RP here as on some other "pure" RP server. It's simply not PG13 at times.
Some are here to erp, some are here to RP but everyone, no matter who has to respect the RP guidelines of the server.
Royal Jelly post was extremely arrogant and shortsighted. It's essentialy a gigantic use of the no true scotsman fallacy.
And I was being constructive, but I guess I need to say it with less sarcasm. It doesn't matter what Bar chose to classify the server under, it doesn't matter what he and the DM do, it doesn't matter how many areas or events there are. What matters is what peoples chose to do whitout breaking the rules. And from what I've experienced there is as much RP here as on some other "pure" RP server. It's simply not PG13 at times.
Some are here to erp, some are here to RP but everyone, no matter who has to respect the RP guidelines of the server.
Wed, 2011-11-30 09:18
#9
I'm going to add my 2 cents worth.
I've been a DM since 2008 on an active family RP server. It may be on NWN1 but the staff do provide IC and OOC support for all players, and don't ban them for speaking OOC in party chat (that's why party chat is there). We do not encourage ERP, however we do ask that it be done in private areas and away from any other players (especially those players under the age of consent).
Haven is different to many of the other servers out there, RP or adult. So it's unfair for anyone to generalise about adult servers or RP servers. Each owner / creator sees their world differently and we are all guests in that world. We can only respect the rules and other players and enjoy the game.
I've been a DM since 2008 on an active family RP server. It may be on NWN1 but the staff do provide IC and OOC support for all players, and don't ban them for speaking OOC in party chat (that's why party chat is there). We do not encourage ERP, however we do ask that it be done in private areas and away from any other players (especially those players under the age of consent).
Haven is different to many of the other servers out there, RP or adult. So it's unfair for anyone to generalise about adult servers or RP servers. Each owner / creator sees their world differently and we are all guests in that world. We can only respect the rules and other players and enjoy the game.
Wed, 2011-11-30 10:56
#10
There are some aspects I agree with on this thread and some that I do not. In some situations, yes, it is difficult to have a really good extensive rp plot when there isn't a DM driving and making up the story for you. One easy suggestion for the staff would be to give some people the "green light" to be a bad guy and to cause some problems. I know some players are very attached to their characters and don't want them permed, and that's cool. There just isn't anything saying that someone who wishes to make a character to cause trouble and give people something to rp and chase, shouldn't be able to do it.
We as a community on Haven need to remember, that without the DM's we still have some good rpers to interract with and to include everyone within the community in that rp that we so cherish. Make sure to talk about things to friends that our character's make. Enjoy those uncomfortable situations that arise. And make it better for all of us to play by rping with characters that maybe your character doesn't like.
I know that, I myself am an elitist. I really like my role play, I do -try- to include others in my role play. I enjoy the conflict and playing through things. The times when it gets hard are when people are so shut off to everyone around them to not even acknowledge others who are there, trying to be included. If we all remember that there are others around us trying to rp and integrate stories, we should be fine without any DM's leading us. Maybe even have some threads about rumors of things happening, or some open story threads about a mystery or some such. Dare yourself to try to do new things.
We as a community on Haven need to remember, that without the DM's we still have some good rpers to interract with and to include everyone within the community in that rp that we so cherish. Make sure to talk about things to friends that our character's make. Enjoy those uncomfortable situations that arise. And make it better for all of us to play by rping with characters that maybe your character doesn't like.
I know that, I myself am an elitist. I really like my role play, I do -try- to include others in my role play. I enjoy the conflict and playing through things. The times when it gets hard are when people are so shut off to everyone around them to not even acknowledge others who are there, trying to be included. If we all remember that there are others around us trying to rp and integrate stories, we should be fine without any DM's leading us. Maybe even have some threads about rumors of things happening, or some open story threads about a mystery or some such. Dare yourself to try to do new things.
Fri, 2011-12-02 05:11
#11
Since the debate of Social versus Role Play is up, I thought I'd pluck one of the server rules and quote it here, because I found it quite interesting.
If Haven is NOT an RP server, then why do we have a rule about staying in character?
I consider Haven an RP server. Where some servers have the PG-13 rules, we instead have the rules of redlighting, et cetera to be able to draw a line between what we like to RP and what we don't like to RP.
General -server- rules found here: http://nwnhaven.com/wiki/server-rules
PS. Apologies for saying 'we', but I've been playing here for a while now and I'd be wrong if I said I didn't feel like part of the gang.
Quote:
When speaking, stay in character... or mark out of character speach with "OOC:", "((" or "//". Emoted text (text describing an in character action) should be surrounded by "*"
If Haven is NOT an RP server, then why do we have a rule about staying in character?
I consider Haven an RP server. Where some servers have the PG-13 rules, we instead have the rules of redlighting, et cetera to be able to draw a line between what we like to RP and what we don't like to RP.
General -server- rules found here: http://nwnhaven.com/wiki/server-rules
PS. Apologies for saying 'we', but I've been playing here for a while now and I'd be wrong if I said I didn't feel like part of the gang.
Sat, 2011-12-03 09:13
#12
Haven isn't a hard-core roleplay server!
We don't have live DMs, but why do you need those? Can't two character interact with each other without having a DM to hold hands? There is a lot "slice of life" RP going on IC all the time.
Is it roleplay if a character cooks a meal? Is it roleplay if a character serves drinks in a bar? Is it roleplay if two characters kiss goodbye before parting ways? Is it roleplay if the two characters do a bit more in the inn's room? Why is sex not roleplay too?
We don't have live DMs, but why do you need those? Can't two character interact with each other without having a DM to hold hands? There is a lot "slice of life" RP going on IC all the time.
Is it roleplay if a character cooks a meal? Is it roleplay if a character serves drinks in a bar? Is it roleplay if two characters kiss goodbye before parting ways? Is it roleplay if the two characters do a bit more in the inn's room? Why is sex not roleplay too?
Sat, 2011-12-03 10:29
#13
shairin wrote:
Haven isn't a hard-core roleplay server!
We don't have live DMs, but why do you need those? Can't two character interact with each other without having a DM to hold hands? There is a lot "slice of life" RP going on IC all the time.
Is it roleplay if a character cooks a meal? Is it roleplay if a character serves drinks in a bar? Is it roleplay if two characters kiss goodbye before parting ways? Is it roleplay if the two characters do a bit more in the inn's room? Why is sex not roleplay too?
Exactly my thoughts on the matter, Shairin.
Sat, 2011-12-03 13:05
#14
I agree with everything Sharin said about Roleplay.
However, as for the question "Why need life DM's to run events?": You don't need them for everything for sure. But you need them if you want to do more than sitting/standing around to chat, grind the same monsters over and over again, craft, or be engaged in ERP. As players we can't simply decide to "spice up the game" by starting big epic plots that will change the server without DM consent at least.
After all, this is not Second Life, or Facebook. If I wanted to log in to chat about the weather everyday, I could rather do that IRL. The is NWN, and D&D still, it's a game, and games should be entertaining. It is fantasy with epic wars between player PCs and DM NPCs being fought, tales being spun, riddles being solved. That is what D&D is about when it comes down to everything. Epic quests, tales, and fun. And that is why, at least now and then, you need a DM to cater to exactly that, even on a non-hardcore RP server.
Goat was excellent at doing that, but he is busy IRL, and even if not, he is only one man.
However, as for the question "Why need life DM's to run events?": You don't need them for everything for sure. But you need them if you want to do more than sitting/standing around to chat, grind the same monsters over and over again, craft, or be engaged in ERP. As players we can't simply decide to "spice up the game" by starting big epic plots that will change the server without DM consent at least.
After all, this is not Second Life, or Facebook. If I wanted to log in to chat about the weather everyday, I could rather do that IRL. The is NWN, and D&D still, it's a game, and games should be entertaining. It is fantasy with epic wars between player PCs and DM NPCs being fought, tales being spun, riddles being solved. That is what D&D is about when it comes down to everything. Epic quests, tales, and fun. And that is why, at least now and then, you need a DM to cater to exactly that, even on a non-hardcore RP server.
Goat was excellent at doing that, but he is busy IRL, and even if not, he is only one man.
Sat, 2011-12-03 15:25
#15
Did it take a DM to start the trade war and political intrigues between Kortuga, Enclave and Tala undercutting prices and plotting against each other?
We don't have DMs in real life either and we can do things too. The server changes every day with people that come and go. It doesn't need a DM to change the areas for change to happen.
We don't have DMs in real life either and we can do things too. The server changes every day with people that come and go. It doesn't need a DM to change the areas for change to happen.
Sat, 2011-12-03 19:03
#16
Dragonpen,
The players can easily run things for the game. Not necessarily things with monsters and such, but things nonetheless.
I know, I have had my character Siobhan has run a couple of Poker Runs, that required solving riddles to find locations in Haven and get a card for their poker hand. A whopping 7 people attended the last one a couple of months ago, out of over 50 people on the server at the time. What is that 15% participation.
Not much incentive to do it again. (Though always the masochist, I will.
)
That being said, I have another idea for a event I am designing right now, a Murder Mystery (For level 15 and under characters, so Skill Rolls are still relevent), but I would need several of the established players, from all the factions, to play active key roles in it. (Read: Suspects, one of whom is going to have to be guilty.)
More importantly, I would either need two players to "Kill off" (Read: retire) one of their more "Colorful" characters (Victim and Murderer), or create a more colorful character myself for the victim, and build enough background for the story line with it, and kill off one of my other characters as the murderer.
But how would I go about arranging such a thing with the other players, when the majority of the characters on the server, even the well established ones, rarely if ever come here and post anything? What could I reward participants with, besides a sweep of the XP wand Siobhan was given long ago, or a magic item that most do not have already from grinding/crafting?
I have a great idea for a single item the winner could get, that would be completely appropriate for a person who first correctly identified the murderer and explained it with all the clues. But it would have to be specially designed, and allowed by the DM's.
I will shortly post a new thread looking for volunteers to assist me, and will get the individual storylines to them within the next couple of weeks.
Why all this here? Because the topic is RP on a Social server, and I believe you are wrong about "But you need them if you want to do more than sitting/standing around to chat, grind the same monsters over and over again, craft, or be engaged in ERP."
Perhaps we need more players who are actively and willing to do more than show up and ERP Hook-up or run around in circles grinding like this is WoW.
The players can easily run things for the game. Not necessarily things with monsters and such, but things nonetheless.
I know, I have had my character Siobhan has run a couple of Poker Runs, that required solving riddles to find locations in Haven and get a card for their poker hand. A whopping 7 people attended the last one a couple of months ago, out of over 50 people on the server at the time. What is that 15% participation.
Not much incentive to do it again. (Though always the masochist, I will.
)That being said, I have another idea for a event I am designing right now, a Murder Mystery (For level 15 and under characters, so Skill Rolls are still relevent), but I would need several of the established players, from all the factions, to play active key roles in it. (Read: Suspects, one of whom is going to have to be guilty.)
More importantly, I would either need two players to "Kill off" (Read: retire) one of their more "Colorful" characters (Victim and Murderer), or create a more colorful character myself for the victim, and build enough background for the story line with it, and kill off one of my other characters as the murderer.
But how would I go about arranging such a thing with the other players, when the majority of the characters on the server, even the well established ones, rarely if ever come here and post anything? What could I reward participants with, besides a sweep of the XP wand Siobhan was given long ago, or a magic item that most do not have already from grinding/crafting?
I have a great idea for a single item the winner could get, that would be completely appropriate for a person who first correctly identified the murderer and explained it with all the clues. But it would have to be specially designed, and allowed by the DM's.
I will shortly post a new thread looking for volunteers to assist me, and will get the individual storylines to them within the next couple of weeks.
Why all this here? Because the topic is RP on a Social server, and I believe you are wrong about "But you need them if you want to do more than sitting/standing around to chat, grind the same monsters over and over again, craft, or be engaged in ERP."
Perhaps we need more players who are actively and willing to do more than show up and ERP Hook-up or run around in circles grinding like this is WoW.
Sat, 2011-12-03 19:26
#17
Sorry, but trade wars are something completely different to what I consider epic D&D. Epic D&D is Goat spawning NPCs that you actually have to think about how to defeat them because they are immune to blunt pointing and klicking. Cities under threat of war. A story being spun of a Lich trying to run the whole place over. THAT, is great D&D, unfortunately the plot pretty much died down. The trade wars are a cute little thing to do when nothing else is happening, but I would hardly consider them something to evolve the whole server around. It's just part of guild RP. It doesn't need a DM to keep them alive and going, and they are somewhat entertaining, but hardly comparable to an event as described above.
As for DMs in RL: This is a GAME, not real life, so the comparison with no RL DMs is invalid pretty much. If we wanted to do and see what we see and do in Real life every day, we would probably not be playing a game with monsters and elves, and magic. And in real life D&D, aka classic pen and paper, yes we DO have DMs. A DM for me is not just the roleplay police stepping in to cater to OOC needs and solve OOC arguments exclusively. DMs are storytellers, certainly not here to be responsible for the entertainment alone. But they can cater to the ideas of the players and help them prosper.
And I am not talking about the events players CAN create themselves as Cyber pointed out. I have seen many good events hosted by players, and have been doing it myself. I am talking about the events players CANNOT decide alone. You can't just have your char walk up and claim: "Oh by the way, I found all of Satoris phylacteries, stole them, and now blackmail him to work for me. Plot over, next please". You cannot. I am not saying these should be constantly happening. But at least once in a while. DM events are the spice in the soup of RP servers. It simply is like that. You run a DM event, and you bet you have a high attendance on Haven, just because people would be hungry to see something happening that does not happen everyday, even if it is just a 30 minute attack of Satoris' minions. Players would pick up there on their own, without a need of a DM, spread rumours, make plans, have meetings etc etc.
As a player I had both sides of the coin happen. I started something once, and then after a while was told: Ah, sorry, but no, this is not going to work on this server. And I said, okay, no bother, next time I'll just ask. I have since submitted a lot of requests and ideas, and gotten no reply to a lot of them. And since I won't simply go ahead and do whatever the hell I please, no matter how it would effect the server event wise etc., I am sure you can see how a DM needs to get involved there to at least give the OK to an idea a player has if it might affect a grand sceme, or shoot it down for whatever reason. Saying that DMs should not be responsible for what players can or can't do is just wrong in this case.
As for DMs in RL: This is a GAME, not real life, so the comparison with no RL DMs is invalid pretty much. If we wanted to do and see what we see and do in Real life every day, we would probably not be playing a game with monsters and elves, and magic. And in real life D&D, aka classic pen and paper, yes we DO have DMs. A DM for me is not just the roleplay police stepping in to cater to OOC needs and solve OOC arguments exclusively. DMs are storytellers, certainly not here to be responsible for the entertainment alone. But they can cater to the ideas of the players and help them prosper.
And I am not talking about the events players CAN create themselves as Cyber pointed out. I have seen many good events hosted by players, and have been doing it myself. I am talking about the events players CANNOT decide alone. You can't just have your char walk up and claim: "Oh by the way, I found all of Satoris phylacteries, stole them, and now blackmail him to work for me. Plot over, next please". You cannot. I am not saying these should be constantly happening. But at least once in a while. DM events are the spice in the soup of RP servers. It simply is like that. You run a DM event, and you bet you have a high attendance on Haven, just because people would be hungry to see something happening that does not happen everyday, even if it is just a 30 minute attack of Satoris' minions. Players would pick up there on their own, without a need of a DM, spread rumours, make plans, have meetings etc etc.
As a player I had both sides of the coin happen. I started something once, and then after a while was told: Ah, sorry, but no, this is not going to work on this server. And I said, okay, no bother, next time I'll just ask. I have since submitted a lot of requests and ideas, and gotten no reply to a lot of them. And since I won't simply go ahead and do whatever the hell I please, no matter how it would effect the server event wise etc., I am sure you can see how a DM needs to get involved there to at least give the OK to an idea a player has if it might affect a grand sceme, or shoot it down for whatever reason. Saying that DMs should not be responsible for what players can or can't do is just wrong in this case.
Sun, 2011-12-04 02:02
#18
The thing is at no point did Bar or any of the other DM's promise to entertain us in any way shape or form.
Yes DM events are nice, yes UBR's getting approved is nice but none of this is a right we are entitled to.
DM time to do anything on or for the server is a privilege, not a right and people who cite that X many days is too long for a UBR to be approved or pounce on a DM logging in as a player pretty much IMHO make the DM's feel put upon and thus less likely to do things.
Then of course we have those that skirt the rules in various ways to their best advantage, simply don't read the forums or bother to find out the rules and in some cases simply fail to apply common sense that ALL then ends up needing to be dealt with by a DM.
At the end of the day no one makes anyone play here. Unhappy by the amount of DM plot? Go somewhere else. Unhappy how long your UBR takes? Go somewhere else.
Bar and I have had some very 'interesting' discussions in my time on the server as I am sure Bar will agree
but ultimately it IS Bar's server that Bar runs as HE wishes and if I really don't like that I can get my toys and go home from the play date he's offering.
Of course I want to see more DM run plots, of course I want to see more things moving the server forward, I'm sure we all do BUT if it's not happening it isn't something IMHO we can complain about because no one GUARANTEED it to us at ANY point.
Also and this may sound harsh and if it does, I'm sorry.
No answer IS an answer in itself cause if it was gonna be yes, you'd have been told yes.
Yes DM events are nice, yes UBR's getting approved is nice but none of this is a right we are entitled to.
DM time to do anything on or for the server is a privilege, not a right and people who cite that X many days is too long for a UBR to be approved or pounce on a DM logging in as a player pretty much IMHO make the DM's feel put upon and thus less likely to do things.
Then of course we have those that skirt the rules in various ways to their best advantage, simply don't read the forums or bother to find out the rules and in some cases simply fail to apply common sense that ALL then ends up needing to be dealt with by a DM.
At the end of the day no one makes anyone play here. Unhappy by the amount of DM plot? Go somewhere else. Unhappy how long your UBR takes? Go somewhere else.
Bar and I have had some very 'interesting' discussions in my time on the server as I am sure Bar will agree
but ultimately it IS Bar's server that Bar runs as HE wishes and if I really don't like that I can get my toys and go home from the play date he's offering.Of course I want to see more DM run plots, of course I want to see more things moving the server forward, I'm sure we all do BUT if it's not happening it isn't something IMHO we can complain about because no one GUARANTEED it to us at ANY point.
Also and this may sound harsh and if it does, I'm sorry.
No answer IS an answer in itself cause if it was gonna be yes, you'd have been told yes.
Sun, 2011-12-04 03:06
#19
"Epic D&D" yes, slice of life RP isn't "epic" at all. You need a DM to have it truly epic. But that's not the only form of roleplay. Just because there is few "Epic D&D" RP doesn't mean that it's not a RP server to some extent.
Obviously you were not asking me. I always answer my PMs. If I don't reply after a week, then I forgot about it. Please remind me.
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that. Send me your ideas and you will get a response.
I admit that we neglected those a bit. I'll try to work something out there to fix it like I did with the housing. But that needs some time.
Quote:
I have since submitted a lot of requests and ideas, and gotten no reply to a lot of them.
Obviously you were not asking me. I always answer my PMs. If I don't reply after a week, then I forgot about it. Please remind me.
Quote:
Saying that DMs should not be responsible for what players can or can't do is just wrong in this case.
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that. Send me your ideas and you will get a response.
Quote:
Unhappy how long your UBR takes
I admit that we neglected those a bit. I'll try to work something out there to fix it like I did with the housing. But that needs some time.
Sun, 2011-12-04 04:25
#20
Wasn't aware UBRS were-- oh wait they're not. Sorry to burst ya folks bubbles, but the DM team is a staff of an establishment. They're not babysitters and they're not here to wait on you . I do find it quite appalling that DMs these days get hammered by tells the moment they log in, which is what causes DM burn outs. They're people too, and I think it's time the server population started treating them as such. Give them a break. You know why they don't do plots? Half of them can't be assed to go through all the work it takes. That's simply because half the population here is ungrateful to their efforts. I won't say everyone, I'm not that silly. But fact of the matter is, I see more people arguing and causing grief than giving these people recognition. That's why Night started up the DM recognition program, so that people would get the hint and actually bother to thank these fine individuals who go out of their way to making the server work for you people.
As for the server being RP? Eeeeh I kinda disagree personally. Just my opinion but the rules make it hard for me to see it as a RP server when the majority of them cater to the OOC standpoint. Like the spying silliness amongst other things. (No that's not an invite to open up the discussion on that silly topic. I've no desire to fight for it to be changed, so bothering to discuss it is moot.) That and (Don't get me wrong, this isn't a complaint.) The server has no driving plotline. Satoris is a subplot, but it's more on the side than anything else. In all reality the average person in Haven could go their entire stay without being affected by that plot. And no, that's not me complaining about lack of things to do, I'm fully aware the staff have other priorities.
Also, on the point of 'needing DMs' In some sense, yes I do believe it is needed, in others no. In base day to day rp, no, not really. But all that occurs is small time talk that doesn't effect Haven on an 'official' level. That is to say, if trader A or law enforcer B were to suddenly disappear for a long time, it really wouldn't make that much of an impact. Also, nothing 'official' can occur without the staff 'agreeing' on it, which goes against the very nature of an RP server, where the server is 'guided' by the DMs, but it's the players that shape it. I personally find Haven's mold to be hard set until the DMs come into play. But that again is fine by me. It just makes me question how the server is more RP than Social, and not the other way around. If you asked me to classify or describe Haven, before this topic started, I would describe it as a Social server with RP overtones. But that's just my two cents on the issue.
. I do find it quite appalling that DMs these days get hammered by tells the moment they log in, which is what causes DM burn outs. They're people too, and I think it's time the server population started treating them as such. Give them a break. You know why they don't do plots? Half of them can't be assed to go through all the work it takes. That's simply because half the population here is ungrateful to their efforts. I won't say everyone, I'm not that silly. But fact of the matter is, I see more people arguing and causing grief than giving these people recognition. That's why Night started up the DM recognition program, so that people would get the hint and actually bother to thank these fine individuals who go out of their way to making the server work for you people.As for the server being RP? Eeeeh I kinda disagree personally. Just my opinion but the rules make it hard for me to see it as a RP server when the majority of them cater to the OOC standpoint. Like the spying silliness amongst other things. (No that's not an invite to open up the discussion on that silly topic. I've no desire to fight for it to be changed, so bothering to discuss it is moot.) That and (Don't get me wrong, this isn't a complaint.) The server has no driving plotline. Satoris is a subplot, but it's more on the side than anything else. In all reality the average person in Haven could go their entire stay without being affected by that plot. And no, that's not me complaining about lack of things to do, I'm fully aware the staff have other priorities.
Also, on the point of 'needing DMs' In some sense, yes I do believe it is needed, in others no. In base day to day rp, no, not really. But all that occurs is small time talk that doesn't effect Haven on an 'official' level. That is to say, if trader A or law enforcer B were to suddenly disappear for a long time, it really wouldn't make that much of an impact. Also, nothing 'official' can occur without the staff 'agreeing' on it, which goes against the very nature of an RP server, where the server is 'guided' by the DMs, but it's the players that shape it. I personally find Haven's mold to be hard set until the DMs come into play. But that again is fine by me. It just makes me question how the server is more RP than Social, and not the other way around. If you asked me to classify or describe Haven, before this topic started, I would describe it as a Social server with RP overtones. But that's just my two cents on the issue.
Sun, 2011-12-04 04:41
#21
You will notice that I no point I was arguing that this server is bad because it has no plots etc. My point is that we once had them, and I miss them, that is all. I totally agree with you there Sharin, slice of life RP IS RP, and for me it is just as important to character development as the occasional unusual thing happening.
My point was not a demand or complaint screaming "We want this or you suck". Not at all. I never argued that Haven is no RP server, or that no RP is happening here. There is some really good RP happening here even. What I said is that you COULD improve it by running more plots, which is a suggestion and it is up to Bar and the DMs to consider it, or not. Saying "It would be nice to have them because"is a difference to "I want them or else". So the "if you don't like it, leave" argument is quite misplaced here. That was never the point. Last I checked constructive feedback was welcome, and I am not afraid to speak my mind to make a suggestion like this. If Bar doesn't like it, he won't do it, if he does, he might, simple as that.
And I agree with all the points causing DM burn-out too. It is a damn shame to see that happen, and I do get why we have less DM events because of it. So I really hope I am not appearing ungrateful there, the DMs do a good job, and getting swarmed like that with OOC drama etc will of course ruin the mood for some good IC stuff. So again, my point = no demand but a suggestion and agreement with Haven being labeled as RP server.
My point was not a demand or complaint screaming "We want this or you suck". Not at all. I never argued that Haven is no RP server, or that no RP is happening here. There is some really good RP happening here even. What I said is that you COULD improve it by running more plots, which is a suggestion and it is up to Bar and the DMs to consider it, or not. Saying "It would be nice to have them because"is a difference to "I want them or else". So the "if you don't like it, leave" argument is quite misplaced here. That was never the point. Last I checked constructive feedback was welcome, and I am not afraid to speak my mind to make a suggestion like this. If Bar doesn't like it, he won't do it, if he does, he might, simple as that.
And I agree with all the points causing DM burn-out too. It is a damn shame to see that happen, and I do get why we have less DM events because of it. So I really hope I am not appearing ungrateful there, the DMs do a good job, and getting swarmed like that with OOC drama etc will of course ruin the mood for some good IC stuff. So again, my point = no demand but a suggestion and agreement with Haven being labeled as RP server.
Sun, 2011-12-04 05:17
#22
It all boils down to how do we define RP-server and how do we define social server.
For me:
RP server = role play, you play in-character and act in-character.
Social server = the character is your avatar that represents you as a player (second-life style).
But if you take the definition of:
RP server = D&D, adventure, DM driven plots
Social server = Social life roleplay / slice of life
Then yes, it's a very social server.
For me:
RP server = role play, you play in-character and act in-character.
Social server = the character is your avatar that represents you as a player (second-life style).
But if you take the definition of:
RP server = D&D, adventure, DM driven plots
Social server = Social life roleplay / slice of life
Then yes, it's a very social server.
Sun, 2011-12-04 16:14
#23
You can role play in real life too though Doesn't make your entire life a medieval rpg ^^.
To me a social server isn't representing you, this isn't second life, and you most certainly... are not an elf. As much as you disagree. As I said, in my view, it's a social server with RP overtones. To me, there's actually story and advancement in an RP setting. Sure... you could say that their lives in Haven is a story @_@ But the last half would be one boring story that involved little actually being accomplished in the somewhat-more-grand-but-not-quite-grand-or-even-mostly-grand scheme of things. Especially when you can't actually do anything adventurous. YAH! I cleared out the tombs.... for the... millionth time..... I bested a dragon.... again. Ya can't even do much between players. Player A wants player B to kill player C. Well... for one, ya can't, without approval... unless of course it's violating the antagonizing rule. And two... what's the point. OH he's d-- oh he's back alive now.... Immersion died a long time ago for me when I killed a person three times in a row. (and before anyone says anything I did have permission.) My drowess dropped a woman who threatened her. Then revived her to see if she would take the advice and gtfo of Dodge, only to be attacked by the woman again. Once again my drowess dropped her. Figuring she would get the hint that she couldn't win, The drowess revived her once more. The same thing happened. So finally she left her corpse on the ground and walked away. Not that it mattered as as soon as I turned the corner, I heard the revive mechanic kick in.
Sad part is... this isn't an exception. It seems to be the rule. Most people (not all I realize) simply aren't afraid of the consequence of pissing someone off, because it's moot. "Ooooh they killed me. So what?" So there's no advancement down that alley either. And while I'm not saying we should make it so people will die right and left... I do think it's a bit.... silly if this is an RP server.
Doesn't make your entire life a medieval rpg ^^.To me a social server isn't representing you, this isn't second life, and you most certainly... are not an elf. As much as you disagree
. As I said, in my view, it's a social server with RP overtones. To me, there's actually story and advancement in an RP setting. Sure... you could say that their lives in Haven is a story @_@ But the last half would be one boring story that involved little actually being accomplished in the somewhat-more-grand-but-not-quite-grand-or-even-mostly-grand scheme of things. Especially when you can't actually do anything adventurous. YAH! I cleared out the tombs.... for the... millionth time..... I bested a dragon.... again. Ya can't even do much between players. Player A wants player B to kill player C. Well... for one, ya can't, without approval... unless of course it's violating the antagonizing rule. And two... what's the point. OH he's d-- oh he's back alive now.... Immersion died a long time ago for me when I killed a person three times in a row. (and before anyone says anything I did have permission.) My drowess dropped a woman who threatened her. Then revived her to see if she would take the advice and gtfo of Dodge, only to be attacked by the woman again. Once again my drowess dropped her. Figuring she would get the hint that she couldn't win, The drowess revived her once more. The same thing happened. So finally she left her corpse on the ground and walked away. Not that it mattered as as soon as I turned the corner, I heard the revive mechanic kick in.Sad part is... this isn't an exception. It seems to be the rule. Most people (not all I realize) simply aren't afraid of the consequence of pissing someone off, because it's moot. "Ooooh they killed me. So what?" So there's no advancement down that alley either. And while I'm not saying we should make it so people will die right and left... I do think it's a bit.... silly if this is an RP server.
Mon, 2011-12-05 17:57
#24
I agree with Rennia too. I think the lack of Permadeath seals the deal right there even though the two most popular RP servers (Baldur's Gate: The Sword Coast and Dalelands) don't have it either.
My ability to compare comes from playing on regimented permadeath servers that are run by a governing board of players that have grievance procedures and try to offer equal treatment for all players. Being that the admin are players and the players are also contributors of content and tech coding it makes for an entirely different experience. Grievances are solved by unbiased player representatives and governed by an admin who just takes care of player issues via guidelines and rules laid out by the players themselves.
Thus my permadeath RP servers manage three servers that are connected areas of Faerun. Problems still happen but its not because a lack of clear concise guidelines or lack of accessibility to a free and fair board of governance.
But we also don't have nude skins and we don't have sex toys. And every act of adultness must happen as it would in the gritty "real" world of Toril. And any overt acts of sexuality are treated as thus.
Haven in itself became our Haven because we didn't have to worry about being judged for our enjoyment of ERP or our serious RP Dms spying on us. We don't get spanked for running or leaving doors open or for not being in-character enough here. And there are no real challenges in the combat department but we can grind away here and practice without getting in trouble for farming.
It is a grand party and a wonderful way to indulge our vices. Insofar with permadeath being the MAIN remover of any natural consequences, attempts at serious roleplaying have only resorted in histronic drama and people making up fabulous lies in their heads, mainly because all the other players were doing was just having a whole lot of fun having a whole lot of sex.
If you aren't using Haven for Erotic RP, even just a little, you are really missing the point of the most well equipped social service there is when there are hundreds of real RP servers out that could truly vilify your serious RP and D&D style urges.
My ability to compare comes from playing on regimented permadeath servers that are run by a governing board of players that have grievance procedures and try to offer equal treatment for all players. Being that the admin are players and the players are also contributors of content and tech coding it makes for an entirely different experience. Grievances are solved by unbiased player representatives and governed by an admin who just takes care of player issues via guidelines and rules laid out by the players themselves.
Thus my permadeath RP servers manage three servers that are connected areas of Faerun. Problems still happen but its not because a lack of clear concise guidelines or lack of accessibility to a free and fair board of governance.
But we also don't have nude skins and we don't have sex toys. And every act of adultness must happen as it would in the gritty "real" world of Toril. And any overt acts of sexuality are treated as thus.
Haven in itself became our Haven because we didn't have to worry about being judged for our enjoyment of ERP or our serious RP Dms spying on us. We don't get spanked for running or leaving doors open or for not being in-character enough here. And there are no real challenges in the combat department but we can grind away here and practice without getting in trouble for farming.
It is a grand party and a wonderful way to indulge our vices. Insofar with permadeath being the MAIN remover of any natural consequences, attempts at serious roleplaying have only resorted in histronic drama and people making up fabulous lies in their heads, mainly because all the other players were doing was just having a whole lot of fun having a whole lot of sex.
If you aren't using Haven for Erotic RP, even just a little, you are really missing the point of the most well equipped social service there is when there are hundreds of real RP servers out that could truly vilify your serious RP and D&D style urges.
Mon, 2011-12-05 19:02
#25
i lurb haven
Tue, 2011-12-06 14:55
#26
Not that anyone here wants to hear my two cents, but...
I have role played in tons of venues, including live mmo's. World of Warcraft is probably the most notable, and certainly speaks to this issue of "needing gm" involvement to make rp "real."
I am a 'real' role player. I 'really' rp. My story lines and characters are my creations and I co-create story with those I rp with. Not just erp either. Kiansai and Falerin do a shit load of stuff that has nothing to do with bumping uglies.
While rping on the largest rp server in WoW, I ran several role play guilds, was officer in a few others. However, over the period of four years not one single person ever said to anyone else there, that because Blizzard in fact disregards all their rules on rp servers (which are meant to foster rp) and have consistently raped their own lore - that what we were doing wasn't role play.
It was role play because we were role playing. I don't need a GM to make a story up for me. I just need my own damn computer and the full use of my mind to make up stories and to write dialog and to plot and play and have fun.
In WoW, we negotiated role play between guilds for conflict, for business, for lots of reasons, and we did so oocly and still managed most of the time not to metagame things.
Haven is a role play server. The people here take time to write up descriptions for their characters, interact IC and believe in the lore of the game enough to not destroy it utterly with fantastical stupidity. Just because there is no GM/DM on high passing you down plot points and funneling your character, your guild or your house down a narrow shoot toward some 'epic' event, doesn't mean this isn't an rp server.
Is it a social server? Yes. Its one of those too. People are social, ooc and ic.
The idea that there is some dichotomy over social vs role play on Haven seems silly to me. This server does both, fills both functions. Rp and Social.
If you are really having that much trouble with role play that you need an outside narrator to do it? Then I suggest you check what you would define as a 'real' role play server.
I happen to like being able to manage my character and her story arch without having to navigate server wide or even directed scripting from a DM/GM who doesn't even know me or my character.
I have role played in tons of venues, including live mmo's. World of Warcraft is probably the most notable, and certainly speaks to this issue of "needing gm" involvement to make rp "real."
I am a 'real' role player. I 'really' rp. My story lines and characters are my creations and I co-create story with those I rp with. Not just erp either. Kiansai and Falerin do a shit load of stuff that has nothing to do with bumping uglies.
While rping on the largest rp server in WoW, I ran several role play guilds, was officer in a few others. However, over the period of four years not one single person ever said to anyone else there, that because Blizzard in fact disregards all their rules on rp servers (which are meant to foster rp) and have consistently raped their own lore - that what we were doing wasn't role play.
It was role play because we were role playing. I don't need a GM to make a story up for me. I just need my own damn computer and the full use of my mind to make up stories and to write dialog and to plot and play and have fun.
In WoW, we negotiated role play between guilds for conflict, for business, for lots of reasons, and we did so oocly and still managed most of the time not to metagame things.
Haven is a role play server. The people here take time to write up descriptions for their characters, interact IC and believe in the lore of the game enough to not destroy it utterly with fantastical stupidity. Just because there is no GM/DM on high passing you down plot points and funneling your character, your guild or your house down a narrow shoot toward some 'epic' event, doesn't mean this isn't an rp server.
Is it a social server? Yes. Its one of those too. People are social, ooc and ic.
The idea that there is some dichotomy over social vs role play on Haven seems silly to me. This server does both, fills both functions. Rp and Social.
If you are really having that much trouble with role play that you need an outside narrator to do it? Then I suggest you check what you would define as a 'real' role play server.
I happen to like being able to manage my character and her story arch without having to navigate server wide or even directed scripting from a DM/GM who doesn't even know me or my character.
- shrugs*
Thu, 2011-12-08 12:36
#27
I do not see Haven as a social server on which I transpose my RL. Hey I am far from being a psychopath in RL.. well according to my shrink
For me it is a place you can develop fantasy story with the help of other player willing to share that moment with your char. It is a RP environment, not as large as TFR or the likes, where it take you a RL week to travel all the scenes, but it offer a effty neatly packaged environement where you are not far away from social event nor ground to hun beasts. Like Central Park in New-York!
It is a place where you can validate your RP schemes by a quick OOC Check, and adjust accordingly. I know I have failed recently to do that check and sadly angried a very fine player. Sometimes I get carried away in sticking to IC and RP. And since I am not master of Shakespear tongue, I may add to the confusion, so OOC check is very appreciated.
Well OOC agreement to help new player may sometimes backfire on you, when RP following is not explained adequately and you char end up facing consequences it would have never occured IC'ly. (like a new player, wanting to learn what it is to be a slave but not wanting to commit of the bat a slave, agreeing to be a slave with no official colar, then making the big scene in Sharessia ending up the char of the helping player being banned from the said city and surrounding).
So no Haven aint a Social server, nor it is a Hard Core RP one. A bit a mix of both...
Aluve!
For me it is a place you can develop fantasy story with the help of other player willing to share that moment with your char. It is a RP environment, not as large as TFR or the likes, where it take you a RL week to travel all the scenes, but it offer a effty neatly packaged environement where you are not far away from social event nor ground to hun beasts. Like Central Park in New-York!
It is a place where you can validate your RP schemes by a quick OOC Check, and adjust accordingly. I know I have failed recently to do that check and sadly angried a very fine player. Sometimes I get carried away in sticking to IC and RP. And since I am not master of Shakespear tongue, I may add to the confusion, so OOC check is very appreciated.
Well OOC agreement to help new player may sometimes backfire on you, when RP following is not explained adequately and you char end up facing consequences it would have never occured IC'ly. (like a new player, wanting to learn what it is to be a slave but not wanting to commit of the bat a slave, agreeing to be a slave with no official colar, then making the big scene in Sharessia ending up the char of the helping player being banned from the said city and surrounding).
So no Haven aint a Social server, nor it is a Hard Core RP one. A bit a mix of both...
Aluve!
Fri, 2011-12-09 17:32
#28
Just playing to have some fun. Sorry. 
Sat, 2011-12-10 08:00
#29
So much argument... so many discussions, accusations and bad blood over how to play a game. And still everything the same tomorrow.
Why is it always "Someone else should do something."?
Its a matter of fact that in roleplaying games the gamemaster is responsible for depicturing the surrounding world in order to breathe life into the background and give the players a responding environment because otherwise they end up in a static bubble with themselfes and no option to influence or change their fate. A gameworld without active gamemasters is stuck in time because the environment turns static and nobody has any means to change that except an active gamemaster. There is a reason for why certain roleplaying systems refer to the gamemaster as "storyteller" after all.
So essentially thats what Haven is for. Casual social roleplay in a safe and static environment where you can safely do whatever caters your imagination in regards of interaction with other players. But since the environment is neither changing nor reacting in any other way there is the limit. You cannot do anything that goes beyond interaction with another player. And this is not a complaint, it is describing a fact.
But in all honesty I dont see what people are arguing and getting at each others throat for here. Its obvious enough what is the menu on the table so why argue about how to label it? Does your soup taste any different if you call it a pudding? Would you argue with your family to not call the shrimps fishes once they are served?
I have been watching the ever more slowly mills run down to almost complete silence myself... but wheres the point in discussing it? You can write a book about it and step on two dozen peoples toes in the process but the server and the game will be the same nonetheless afterwards.
Whats there to say... I wasnt overly happy with the results of my own attempts to raise some plots and development over the last two years either. But you dont visit someones party and start complaining about how you dont like their cooking style. If you dont like how things are get up and do something about it... so instead I learned cooking myself.
-K.
Why is it always "Someone else should do something."?
Its a matter of fact that in roleplaying games the gamemaster is responsible for depicturing the surrounding world in order to breathe life into the background and give the players a responding environment because otherwise they end up in a static bubble with themselfes and no option to influence or change their fate. A gameworld without active gamemasters is stuck in time because the environment turns static and nobody has any means to change that except an active gamemaster. There is a reason for why certain roleplaying systems refer to the gamemaster as "storyteller" after all.
So essentially thats what Haven is for. Casual social roleplay in a safe and static environment where you can safely do whatever caters your imagination in regards of interaction with other players. But since the environment is neither changing nor reacting in any other way there is the limit. You cannot do anything that goes beyond interaction with another player. And this is not a complaint, it is describing a fact.
But in all honesty I dont see what people are arguing and getting at each others throat for here. Its obvious enough what is the menu on the table so why argue about how to label it? Does your soup taste any different if you call it a pudding? Would you argue with your family to not call the shrimps fishes once they are served?
I have been watching the ever more slowly mills run down to almost complete silence myself... but wheres the point in discussing it? You can write a book about it and step on two dozen peoples toes in the process but the server and the game will be the same nonetheless afterwards.
Whats there to say... I wasnt overly happy with the results of my own attempts to raise some plots and development over the last two years either. But you dont visit someones party and start complaining about how you dont like their cooking style. If you dont like how things are get up and do something about it... so instead I learned cooking myself.
-K.
Sat, 2011-12-10 18:05
#30
this thread's hilarious, reminds me of U.S. of A. politics.
Mon, 2012-02-27 13:32
#31
All the world's a stage!
Tue, 2012-02-28 02:48
#32
Having read most of the above posts, I wish to bring a new player's perspective to the mix.
I joined Haven because I grew tired of how hard it is to have genuine roleplay encounters on some other, populated servers like BGTSCC for instance. Sure, they might have plenty of more areas there, and DMs online daily to do general surveillance, OOC help, or events big or small.
However, to me, Haven's got a different climate all together. I am not saying we wouldn't benefit from DM support - there is no overwhelming obstacle in place here that makes it impossible to simply enlist a few mature and story-telling inclined people, and have them run events. But the initial appeal of Haven to me was that it can do without, as well. There are plenty of groups and guilds, and Sharessia feels like a city that is really alive - as you constantly run into other people.
All the ingredients are there for enjoyable RP. It does take pro-activity from the players, and that means climbing out of your comfort zone. I encourage everyone to challenge themselves as roleplayers, and find aspects you're not sure if you can pull off - and then pull them off anyway.
I joined Haven because I grew tired of how hard it is to have genuine roleplay encounters on some other, populated servers like BGTSCC for instance. Sure, they might have plenty of more areas there, and DMs online daily to do general surveillance, OOC help, or events big or small.
However, to me, Haven's got a different climate all together. I am not saying we wouldn't benefit from DM support - there is no overwhelming obstacle in place here that makes it impossible to simply enlist a few mature and story-telling inclined people, and have them run events. But the initial appeal of Haven to me was that it can do without, as well. There are plenty of groups and guilds, and Sharessia feels like a city that is really alive - as you constantly run into other people.
All the ingredients are there for enjoyable RP. It does take pro-activity from the players, and that means climbing out of your comfort zone. I encourage everyone to challenge themselves as roleplayers, and find aspects you're not sure if you can pull off - and then pull them off anyway.
Tue, 2012-02-28 07:31
#33
I like this server very much. 
My only complaint is recent events involving either new or returning old players doing things that cause(IG)consequences and then when caught log out or go AFK and wait for the guard or apprehending individual to go away. If you do a crime or break a rule be prepared for the consequences.
My only complaint is recent events involving either new or returning old players doing things that cause(IG)consequences and then when caught log out or go AFK and wait for the guard or apprehending individual to go away. If you do a crime or break a rule be prepared for the consequences.
Tue, 2012-02-28 09:12
#34
Elli wrote:
this thread's hilarious, reminds me of U.S. of A. politics.
Not until someone starts invoking religious beliefs to justify their policies. Also, I am not a witch.
Tue, 2012-02-28 14:58
#35
http://www.spikednation.com/sites/default/files/images/burn-the-witch-bu...
How do we get a picture to show directly on our threads?
..When I very first discovered Haven I met people who did not know much about D&D or some of the knowledge I always took for granted. I've also meet people who are lore-dorks and seem to have lived, eaten, and absorbed every facet of this vast fictional world. I know a few things about this and that and some of the rules. Like stuff I learned in my much expose to the RPG.
Playing here for a few months total, if I squished all my time here together, I think Haven is unique. I never played NWN1 online this is my 1st selection from the "social" tab. All this mentioned I would have to choose to say this is a role-playing server. Much of the general or popular lore is explained easily and known but I see things like ice cream and other modern references inside role-playing. Once upon a time this made me very upset but now I see it as comfortable: something to allow the novice and the advanced player to join in casual RP without needing to spend hours and hours reading just to feel on par. I've play on a server like that and it can be intimidating.
I see people stay in their characters 90% of the time and are very good about using the famous three slashes. I see people more concerned with actual RP then how player A is BETTER then B. I See the players engaging in interactive discussions about their common differences then I see conflict. Granted the common lure is a chance we can explore our own sexual likes and dislikes through an online hub, but I see real role-play.
NWN2's very own adult role-play and dating server will always be hard to pin down in more traditional terms. If you are reading the forums here and getting THIS involved it is obviously something special to you. If six people sit in a circle and draw a car in the middle the drawing will be different to each perspective but its still the same thing. I say just get in, take a great drive and go home with a few good memories.
How do we get a picture to show directly on our threads?
..When I very first discovered Haven I met people who did not know much about D&D or some of the knowledge I always took for granted. I've also meet people who are lore-dorks and seem to have lived, eaten, and absorbed every facet of this vast fictional world. I know a few things about this and that and some of the rules. Like stuff I learned in my much expose to the RPG.
Playing here for a few months total, if I squished all my time here together, I think Haven is unique. I never played NWN1 online this is my 1st selection from the "social" tab. All this mentioned I would have to choose to say this is a role-playing server. Much of the general or popular lore is explained easily and known but I see things like ice cream and other modern references inside role-playing. Once upon a time this made me very upset but now I see it as comfortable: something to allow the novice and the advanced player to join in casual RP without needing to spend hours and hours reading just to feel on par. I've play on a server like that and it can be intimidating.
I see people stay in their characters 90% of the time and are very good about using the famous three slashes. I see people more concerned with actual RP then how player A is BETTER then B. I See the players engaging in interactive discussions about their common differences then I see conflict. Granted the common lure is a chance we can explore our own sexual likes and dislikes through an online hub, but I see real role-play.
NWN2's very own adult role-play and dating server will always be hard to pin down in more traditional terms. If you are reading the forums here and getting THIS involved it is obviously something special to you. If six people sit in a circle and draw a car in the middle the drawing will be different to each perspective but its still the same thing. I say just get in, take a great drive and go home with a few good memories.
Wed, 2012-03-14 08:10
#36
"If you aren't using Haven for Erotic RP, even just a little, you are really missing the point of the most well equipped social service there is when there are hundreds of real RP servers out that could truly vilify your serious RP and D&D style urges. "
Royaljelly's comments bring up something I have heard many times over the years. Why would someone play in a social server if they are not role-playing sex?
While there is nothing really stopping players from lying about their age, social servers cater to adult players. I am of the 30 plus crowd, I like playing with other mature players.
I may not be throwing out the ERP but I like suggestive play and that could be over the line in RP servers due to minors being there. I like certain tones in RP that can be too mature for minors; I enjoy delving into the minds and lives of characters and having a slow process of revelation in who they are, what motivates them and so forth. This may not be sex but with mature tones and a culture for slavery or D/S, this is absolutely adults only kind of play. It's play I enjoy enriched with crafting and adventure.
So I don't think I am missing the point of a social server at all if I don't toss myself at a guy and scream, "do me baby!".
Royaljelly's comments bring up something I have heard many times over the years. Why would someone play in a social server if they are not role-playing sex?
While there is nothing really stopping players from lying about their age, social servers cater to adult players. I am of the 30 plus crowd, I like playing with other mature players.
I may not be throwing out the ERP but I like suggestive play and that could be over the line in RP servers due to minors being there. I like certain tones in RP that can be too mature for minors; I enjoy delving into the minds and lives of characters and having a slow process of revelation in who they are, what motivates them and so forth. This may not be sex but with mature tones and a culture for slavery or D/S, this is absolutely adults only kind of play. It's play I enjoy enriched with crafting and adventure.
So I don't think I am missing the point of a social server at all if I don't toss myself at a guy and scream, "do me baby!".
Wed, 2012-03-14 09:40
#37
I have a very simple definition of a good roleplayer: anybody who consistently participates in mutually enjoyed roleplaying. And enjoyment is personal taste - the trick is to find roleplay partner(s) who have compatable tastes. And anybody who wants to try to draw a hard and fast rule about whether Haven is "social" or "roleplay" is IMHO missing the point: you are playing a game, and games are played to have fun.
I couldn't care less if somebody falls short of the so-called "expert" evaluations on what makes a good roleplayer. Rules on most servers I've been on tend to focus on the mutually-acceptable aspect - if the enjoyment is one-way as opposed to two-way, there's something wrong with it. Similarily, I don't really care if characters are pure cyber-bunnies or completely abstinent - there's enough of both types, plus mixes of the two, for there to be sufficient supply and demand.
So if somebody wants to say they're playing a godlike character or the lowliest, most-gimped slave ever, I don't care OOCly (even if my characters ICly mock their pretention and I OOCly steer clear of them) as long as they don't force-feed their preferences on me, and as long as they've found somebody receptive to those characters. As such, I tend to also steer clear of supposedly well-balanced and thought-out characters if they complain of boredom overmuch. The onus is equally on them to take steps to be entertained, and not on everybody else to entertain them.
So I think "social vs. roleplay" is moot. Like every other server, it's what you make of it as long as rules of mutually-consented roleplay are respected.
I couldn't care less if somebody falls short of the so-called "expert" evaluations on what makes a good roleplayer. Rules on most servers I've been on tend to focus on the mutually-acceptable aspect - if the enjoyment is one-way as opposed to two-way, there's something wrong with it. Similarily, I don't really care if characters are pure cyber-bunnies or completely abstinent - there's enough of both types, plus mixes of the two, for there to be sufficient supply and demand.
So if somebody wants to say they're playing a godlike character or the lowliest, most-gimped slave ever, I don't care OOCly (even if my characters ICly mock their pretention and I OOCly steer clear of them) as long as they don't force-feed their preferences on me, and as long as they've found somebody receptive to those characters. As such, I tend to also steer clear of supposedly well-balanced and thought-out characters if they complain of boredom overmuch. The onus is equally on them to take steps to be entertained, and not on everybody else to entertain them.
So I think "social vs. roleplay" is moot. Like every other server, it's what you make of it as long as rules of mutually-consented roleplay are respected.
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